Dog Chat :: View topic

gypsygirl · Dogaholic

Don't know why it came up as quest. I did't sign out only left my computer for a couple of hours.
The obove was me.

jojo · Dogaholic

Gypsy
Jojo I disagree with you. Learning how to read dog body language is not beyone the scope ot the average dog owner. It is actually not that hard once you learn to become observent. Now teaching people to be observant and notice the smallest nuances(sp) in a dogs body signals, that can be tricky. People tend to see the dog as a whole and not a individual parts

JoJo,
Have you been drinking? what do you mean you disagree? disagre with what? I cannot see anything relevant in the to above to anything I've said!

Ten minuits later: Well I have looked at the above again and really cannot work out what it's releveant to.

Marrus · New Here

Hey all,

Moving back to the subject of Ms Fenneli I would like to say that if anybody vists her website (aka Bookstore) that she offers wonderful courses now you can attend and at the end of it you get a certificate of attendance! Wow.

Seriously though the website offers for the cost of £250 a 2-3 hour consultation which advice will be given and then you get telephone support thereafter.

I quote :
The call last between 2-3 hours, during which time you will learn why the dog is behaving as it is, and what it is actually thinking. Once you understand your dog, we then give you simple actions to perform when in contact with your dog, enabling you to communicate and show it that the undesirable behavior is no longer necessary. The dog will stop the behavior OF ITS OWN FREE WILL, and this is nearly always evident in the time we are with you.

After this consultation, Amichien Dog Listeners will be just a phone call away should you have any further questions, need some extra advice or simply some reassurance. This aftercare service is free of charge and available for as long as you need it, be it days, weeks or months after the consultation. Like stabilizers on a bicycle, we are there for you to give you the confidence to carry on.

- Now call me a pestimist here but can anybody seriously say that after a 2-3 hours single visit and some telephone advice that a dog will actually stop behaviour which has been driving the owner to so much distraction that they feel the need for a behavourist to attend ?

- In summary a great writer, a wonderful business woman and a fabulous ongoing marketing program. Personally I would not entrust my dog or anybody I know to this blatent commercialism. OK - people have to make a living but to promise the above seems a little far fetched to say the least.

Every dog is different we all agree on that. It would appear that dog listening produces results in a couple of hours! Why have I wasted my time with a professional trainer and spend many hours of rewarding work with my dog I ask myself (sarcasm fully intended).

For anybody who is interested have a look at the website. It amused me greatly. www.janfennellthedoglistener.com

Marrus

Mad Max Lady · Regular

HOW much?????? Did you say £250 ??
And for that she will tell you what your dog is thinking.....not that anyone could disprove her, but I defy her to tell us what any dog is actually thinking! How it views a situation, maybe.....
Then she will give you some 'simple actions to perform'. Don't tell me, they'll be the same actions that she ALWAYS recommends, for EVERY situation.... ie ignore the dog for at least 5 minutes when reuniting after a separation, pretend to eat out of its foodbowl, and the other 2, which I've read over and over and still can't remember cos they're so well hidden in amongst all the prose! Laughing

They're good enough points, but why on earth would anyone pay her that huge sum of money to be told what she tells every client on TV, and has now filled not one but two whole books with..........

I very rarely give up on any book, but I've given up on her second one cos it's so stuffed with padding it really does become confusing, simple though the basic message is! For those who haven't read it, it opens with the loss of two of her dogs, one of whom was the female alpha of the canine pack. At which point two of her other dogs had a fairly serious fight, which completely freaked her out and it took her a while to realise what was happening. Well, if that was her reaction as an established 'expert', I couldn't help but feel it didn't reflect very well on her. Would you want to pay this woman vast sums of money when she couldn't even forsee this happening with her own dogs??

And another thing which occurred to me in the wee small hours last night - why does she call herself the Dog Listener, when one of the mainstays of her 'programme' is ignoring them....... Laughing

maryjohn · New Puppy

hahahahahaha Laughing

Marrus · New Here

LOL - I like that. Personally Im thinking of calling myself the "Dog Doctor" and I think I can make a business out of it. What I do is go to peoples houses and charge them £500 to ingore thier own dog!

Oh - she beat me to it Surprised

Thats one heck of a business woman. I must confess if I had the time (and inclination) then I would go on one of her courses just to actually make sure that the drivel was in fact correct.

The worst part about it is that people are signing up to it really fast. You have to admire the PR company behind it. Smile

jojo · Dogaholic

Marus,

The worst part about it is that people are signing up to it really fast. You have to admire the PR company behind it.

JoJo,

Yes 'Jan Fennel' is highly marketable trade name, at least as far as the dog world goes it ranks side by side with 'Chum', 'Chappie' and other brand names.

Out of interest I wonder if people know that tined dog food contains 75% water, I suppose the rest is hot air.

Jay · New Puppy

Yes the water content is outrageous but you only have to read the label to see what rubbish is in these tinned foods.

tempest · Regular

There will always be an audience for something that is sold cleverly - not everyone takes the time to look into things to see exactly what they are getting - guess that is just a fact of life and all we (we being either animal lovers or professionals) can do is try to raise awareness.

jojo · Dogaholic

Tempest,
guess that is just a fact of life and all we (we being either animal lovers or professionals) can do is try to raise awareness.

JoJo,

I couldn't agree more tempest, very little indeed can be done by giveing people written 'instructions' when they state a problem, not only that it can be dangerous and impossible to follow in real life, guidlines might help some and only in simple or exceptional cases do I suggest a 'Do this' answere.

However a lot can be done by helping people, especially those new to dogs to see whats going on the ethicly corrupt commercial world of dogs, become aware of the dangers, pit falls and rip offs of fancy worded, scentific sounding stuff designed soley to give the newcomer the impression the dog is a complicated animal which only a rare few can and do understand and consequently spend absorbitant amounts of money on non existant problems only to find no change in the dog.

The reason for all the claptrap talked and written is for no other reason than to get people to beleive it could never be within their comprehension and they need to spend a lifetime of finacial outgoings just to keep the dog in a normal non-disruptive daily routine.

I will stand up against anyone giveing that comrecial bull and I will state quite clearly, there is nothing AT ALL complicated or needing special education in FULLY understanding the dogs psychology and how, as a result, solve any non-clinical problems themselevs without any outside intervention whatsoever.

Marrus · New Here

I just checked her site again. The courses seem to be going well -

***** Dates for 2003 ***** February 5th - 6th (now fully booked ) February 15th - 16th (now fully booked) February 26th - 27th (now fully booked) March 17th - 18th (now fully booked) March 27th - 28th (now fully booked) April 19th - 20th (now fully booked) April 30th-May 1st (now fully booked)

*** NEW DATE April 8th - 9th 2003 ***

More dates to follow, plus advanced courses will be started possibly Aug/Sept 2003 invitation only, to students who have attended the foundation course, and are judged to be ready for higher enlightenment.

- Jojo you had Max and (more specifically) I trained in 4 weeks. Seems you've been outdone - 2 hours and then some telephone calls and the dogs are sorted it seems...... Very Happy

Jan and the Amichien Dog Listening Team will be at Crufts on 6/7/8/9 of March 2003 at the NEC Birmingham on the Iams stand. Talks/Book Signing/Advice

- Im wondering if during the course you get Iams commerical breaks in between. Seriously - great business sense. Do you think those are judged ready for higher enlightenment have low rank drives by chance......

Marrus

jojo · Dogaholic

To be quite honest I think the above is a positive move on her part, in comparison to some behaviourists, at least all she is doing is taking money.

David Appleby was called in to see whats been described to me as a perfectly healthy GSD whos problem is the owners have not been trained, so he was a bit out of control.

Appleby looked it in the eys, told it quiet, of course GSD's being sensible dogs it ignored him, so he recomended it was put down, at least Fennel is
only taking money not dogs lives.

I am seriously thinking of starting a rescue centre to save dogs from behaviourists.

jojo · Dogaholic

Gypsy Posted: Sun Feb 09, 2003 1:53 am

Jojo in case you are wondering her obedience training is doing very well and is almost flawless now. Recall off lead when other dogs are around not included. But we are working on that.

JoJo,

You were ‘training’ this dog last JULY what is that you are not teaching the dog, no recall after even 6 or most 8 WEEKS is unheard of. Why is the dog not learning, what’s really wrong with you're training methods?

Try reading MaryJohn of P 3 of this fennel thread, she came here in Oct last, 3 months after you were training your dog in July. She also complaines of dirsruption to her questions and needs.

Then try Marrus’s post ‘I just sacked JoJo’. Why have your training methods not worked?

Well I suppose on the bright side, once you have learned how to get a recall from your own dog you will be able to offer non-dangerous advice to others. Keep learning.

Puppylove · New Here

Forget Jan Fennell The Dog Listener and Amichien Bonding -
Read The Dog Whisperer: A Compassionate, Nonviolent Approach to Dog Training by Paul Owens, Norma Eckroate, Michael W. Fox

gypsygirl · Dogaholic

February 9th. Good god Jojo you must have a lot of spare time on your hands to dig up and old posting.
Did you wake up the morning of April 8th and decide it pick on Gypsygirl day?
Sometimes you are just too funny and give me a really good laugh. Thanks.
Laughing

gypsygirl · Dogaholic

PS I went to clicker training and Sophie now has a perfect recall.
Archie learned his in 4 weeks so I don't necessarely think it is my training method that is a fault.
I wouln't bore you with the reason hers took so long.

jojo · Dogaholic

Yes I remember you were doing clicker training with Sophi last July. The 4 weeks recall is good with Archi in comparison to over 8 months with the other clicker.

It must be the unbelievable technological advances in clickers that does it, the 'power' of the clicker so to speak.

Guest

July Hmm thats strange since I don't remember even having a clicker in July. I thought I got it sometime in the late fall. But I'll take your word for it as your memory is so much better than mine.
whoops it loged me out.
Gypsygirl

jojo · Dogaholic

Gypsy Posted: Sun Feb 09, 2003 1:53 am

Jojo in case you are wondering her obedience training is doing very well and is almost flawless now. Recall off lead when other dogs are around not included. But we are working on that.

JoJo
As you do not have a relaible recal and this has been going on since July2002 I suggest you watch Tims post 'aggressive GSD, you might learn to get a recall if you watch that post.

gypsygirl · Dogaholic

Gee Jojo if you scroll up you will notice that I posted on April 10. That she now has a perfect recall. What Tim's posts have to do with it I have no idea.